The surprising thing I learned from this article is a lot of the would-be donors were dying or presumed dead from overdoses. I always thought drug use would taint the organs and make them useless for donation.
Most opioids do not damage organs. They typically just change our central nervous systems and suppress breathing which is how they ultimately kill. The brain will die long before organs during oxygen depravation.
Alcohol, amphetamines, and other drugs do in fact damage organs before they kill but opioids do not unless they also contain something like Tylenol which is a liver toxin.
Along with the good it can do, people should be made aware of these stories before signing up to be an organ donor. Otherwise the consent isn't truly informed.
When you consider the growing evidence that we've seen over the years that apparently unresponsive people can be fully aware of their surroundings, this is truly terrifying.
From some of the remarks at the end of the article one really statts to wonder how much survivorship bias there is here... How many procedures went forward despite the medical professionals in the room being uncomfortable...
> When you consider the growing evidence that we've seen over the years that apparently unresponsive people can be fully aware of their surroundings, this is truly terrifying.
We're also seeing growing evidence that a fair amount of people regain consciousness under general anaesthesia (but remain fully paralyzed), despite the common wisdom putting it as much less than 1%. What is uncommon is to remember it afterwards, because the drugs cocktail prevents memory formation.
I've heard in some lighter procedures (think bone setting or dental work) just an amnesic drug is given as apparently not biologically encoding/remembering a traumatic event seems to produce just as good an outlook as blocking the tramua through unconsciousness/painkillers
>as apparently not biologically encoding/remembering a traumatic event seems to produce just as good an outlook as blocking the tramua through unconsciousness/painkillers
I'll have to look it up, but there is at least one known case of a man who went through conscious but immobilized general anesthesia, through excruciating surgery pain, before the doctors (in this case) realized that they'd forgotten to first give him a certain specific sedative drug as part of his anesthesia cocktail. They rectified this and apparently did so knowing that it would make him forget the trauma he'd just gone through.
However, later, when he woke up from an otherwise successful and complication-free surgery, he soon began to have extremely severe, brutally traumatic anxiety attacks, derived from subconscious memories of what he'd experienced. This went on without resolution to the point where he could no longer socially function at all.. If I remember correctly, he then eventually killed himself as a result.
After his death, his family investigated the last major medical thing he'd gone through (his otherwise routine surgery) and somehow got wind of what the doctors had done, and that they'd known of their own fuckup. The familiy then did manage to gather enough evidence to have the doctors criminally charged, aside from also getting a massive settlement from the hospital itself.
Long story short, I wouldn't count on "just as good an outlook", and especially if I know that, going into such a surgery, the me that feels it before later forgetting what happened will go through a brief living hell of horror.
It's no consolation knowing your future You won't remember a thing if you still have to fully experience that nightmare prima facie.
You’re just making a guess about that — or so says my pineal gland, thymus gland, heart, solar plexus, adrenal glands, etc.. The brain and nervous system is just the spokesorgan for a carnival of bioenergetic centers that makes Stock Exchanges and Sports events look staid in comparison. You may think your brain is the boss, but what was the organ that made you think that? Your brain may have selfish interests in making you believe it is your essence — due diligence is called for.
If incentives rule, you should never, ever, under any circumstance, seek medical treatment.
The incentive is to make everyone who shows up at the hospital maximally sick, ideally with illnesses that require as many tests and treatments and possible.
You can't trust your friends or family either. The hospital may have paid them to try to convince you.
The Organ Procurement Organizations are separate entities and have their own incentives. It’s their representatives who are pushing for organ retrieval in dubious cases.
Yeah that's not great. Why do procurement organizations have "incentives" at all? Are employees there actually getting compensated on number of transplants performed? That's a bit gross IMO. It's a non-profit. You work there for a below-market salary and a feeling of doing something good in the world.
The surprising thing I learned from this article is a lot of the would-be donors were dying or presumed dead from overdoses. I always thought drug use would taint the organs and make them useless for donation.
Most opioids do not damage organs. They typically just change our central nervous systems and suppress breathing which is how they ultimately kill. The brain will die long before organs during oxygen depravation.
Alcohol, amphetamines, and other drugs do in fact damage organs before they kill but opioids do not unless they also contain something like Tylenol which is a liver toxin.
Is donor cause of death disclosed to the organ recipients and/or their medical providers?
Along with the good it can do, people should be made aware of these stories before signing up to be an organ donor. Otherwise the consent isn't truly informed.
https://archive.ph/Gx3vU
When you consider the growing evidence that we've seen over the years that apparently unresponsive people can be fully aware of their surroundings, this is truly terrifying.
From some of the remarks at the end of the article one really statts to wonder how much survivorship bias there is here... How many procedures went forward despite the medical professionals in the room being uncomfortable...
> When you consider the growing evidence that we've seen over the years that apparently unresponsive people can be fully aware of their surroundings, this is truly terrifying.
We're also seeing growing evidence that a fair amount of people regain consciousness under general anaesthesia (but remain fully paralyzed), despite the common wisdom putting it as much less than 1%. What is uncommon is to remember it afterwards, because the drugs cocktail prevents memory formation.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/05/24/durin...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/10/surgery-pati...
I've heard in some lighter procedures (think bone setting or dental work) just an amnesic drug is given as apparently not biologically encoding/remembering a traumatic event seems to produce just as good an outlook as blocking the tramua through unconsciousness/painkillers
>as apparently not biologically encoding/remembering a traumatic event seems to produce just as good an outlook as blocking the tramua through unconsciousness/painkillers
I'll have to look it up, but there is at least one known case of a man who went through conscious but immobilized general anesthesia, through excruciating surgery pain, before the doctors (in this case) realized that they'd forgotten to first give him a certain specific sedative drug as part of his anesthesia cocktail. They rectified this and apparently did so knowing that it would make him forget the trauma he'd just gone through.
However, later, when he woke up from an otherwise successful and complication-free surgery, he soon began to have extremely severe, brutally traumatic anxiety attacks, derived from subconscious memories of what he'd experienced. This went on without resolution to the point where he could no longer socially function at all.. If I remember correctly, he then eventually killed himself as a result.
After his death, his family investigated the last major medical thing he'd gone through (his otherwise routine surgery) and somehow got wind of what the doctors had done, and that they'd known of their own fuckup. The familiy then did manage to gather enough evidence to have the doctors criminally charged, aside from also getting a massive settlement from the hospital itself.
Long story short, I wouldn't count on "just as good an outlook", and especially if I know that, going into such a surgery, the me that feels it before later forgetting what happened will go through a brief living hell of horror.
It's no consolation knowing your future You won't remember a thing if you still have to fully experience that nightmare prima facie.
Are you really dead if some of your organs are living on in someone else's body?
Seems like you would only be "Mostly Dead"
Unless we’re talking about the brain and central the nervous system, your organs aren’t you, they’re yours
You’re just making a guess about that — or so says my pineal gland, thymus gland, heart, solar plexus, adrenal glands, etc.. The brain and nervous system is just the spokesorgan for a carnival of bioenergetic centers that makes Stock Exchanges and Sports events look staid in comparison. You may think your brain is the boss, but what was the organ that made you think that? Your brain may have selfish interests in making you believe it is your essence — due diligence is called for.
I'd be pretty pissed to get this close to not having to wake up and then they bungle it up. Now I have to go back to work and pay taxes.
This is why I will never be an organ donor and watch the news of successful xenotransplants with excitement.
Another point for the Charlie Munger maxim, "show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome"
If incentives rule, you should never, ever, under any circumstance, seek medical treatment.
The incentive is to make everyone who shows up at the hospital maximally sick, ideally with illnesses that require as many tests and treatments and possible.
You can't trust your friends or family either. The hospital may have paid them to try to convince you.
What's the incentive? The hospital gets paid for keeping patients on life support too, right?
The Organ Procurement Organizations are separate entities and have their own incentives. It’s their representatives who are pushing for organ retrieval in dubious cases.
Yeah that's not great. Why do procurement organizations have "incentives" at all? Are employees there actually getting compensated on number of transplants performed? That's a bit gross IMO. It's a non-profit. You work there for a below-market salary and a feeling of doing something good in the world.
You have to love American brand of capitalism, where it is illegal to sell your own organs, but legal to sell someone else's.